Voices of Sustainability: Season 2, Episode #3
Hallie Cole
TRT: 22:27
Hello and welcome to the Voices of Sustainability podcast. My name is Halle Cole, and I will be your host and reporter for season two. This season we're looking ahead and continuing the dialogue about sustainability. These episodes feature in-depth conversations with leaders who are helping shape what sustainability will look like in the years to come. I'll be speaking with professionals across fields to highlight the various strategies and challenges faced by the government, businesses, and nonprofits who are all striving to balance economic growth with environmental and social responsibility.
Today, I'm joined by Suzanne Dickerson, the Director of North America at Phenogy Inc., a startup company pioneering advanced battery storage solutions. We talk about the role of energy storage and transitioning to renewable power, the challenges of scaling new technology, and how innovation and collaboration are shaping the clean energy landscape. Let's get into it.
Hallie Cole
Just to start us off, Suzanne, I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit about yourself and your role and what Phenogy does as a company?
Suzanne Dickerson
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having us on. We really appreciate it. So I am the director of North America for Phenogy, Inc., which is our North American subsidiary for Phenogy AG, which is a company based in Switzerland. And I come from an automotive and logistics background. I started my career 30 years ago in the sustainability field. That time I was at BMW where I spent 12 years and learned a lot about sustainability practices and so forth. I had been working in the German foreign government at Angela Merkel's Environmental Ministry as a fellow of the Robert Bosch Foundation at the time, and BMW was doing a project with the government. And I just found this whole collaborative environment between industry and government to be really rewarding and continue to believe very strongly in those kinds of partnerships.
So in my last nine years, though, in South Carolina, I've been at the South Carolina Council on Competitiveness and my most recent role there was as the director of the South Carolina Fraunhofer Alliance. So working with that German research network to bring expertise to South Carolina companies to help them improve their global competitive position. And we were kind of watching all of this battery industry investment in South Carolina come to the state in a matter of just three and a half, four years. We had over $16 billion of investment into the battery industry. And so we kind of picked up the ball and ran with the idea and support of this fast-growing sector of South Carolina's economy.
And so I was constantly involved with new battery companies that were coming to the state. And when finished, Phenogy was looking for a U.S. headquarters, a delegation, including the mayor of Columbia and the World Affairs Council and others, had gone over and met the company and really loved what they were doing. And so I got involved early on and was thrilled to help them decide to put their company headquarters in Columbia, South Carolina. And today I'm equally thrilled to be the director of North America for the company.
So Phenogy is so exciting in so many different ways. We're a young and fast growing startup. And we're really disrupting the energy storage market with sustainable chemistries. I like to point out to people that usually when you think of a CTO inside an organization, you think of tech. In our case, our CTO is a chemist. So for sure, one of the distinguishing factors about our products are the sustainable chemistries. When I say growing fast, I mean, for example, we already hold more than 60 patents for energy storage technologies, and we're growing that number as we speak. We're all about disrupting the status quo through the development of future-proof energy storage technologies that are safer, more efficient, and more resilient than conventional storage.
And I think another thing that's really different about Phenogy is we have this collaborative culture, and we're all about partnerships as well. Phenogy's been collaborating with the best research organizations since our inception—Fraunhofer Society and its Battery Alliance is just one example of that. Today, we're already doing three distinct projects at the University of South Carolina, and we're excited about these new partnerships. So let's, you know, a little bit about who we are and what we're doing.
Hallie Cole
I wanted to talk about, you say, the future-proof energy storage. Could you just go into a little bit more detail about what exactly sustainable energy storage means and how Phenogy's approach to it differs from maybe the traditional methods?
Suzanne Dickerson
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess there are at least three differentiating factors. The first one is the sourcing of the energy. So sustainable storage is achieved by way of integration of the energy from renewable sources. So typically that's going to be solar and wind, but it could also be hydrogen or other common renewable sources. That's the first big differentiator. And then secondly, unlike conventional storage from fossil fuel or certain battery technologies that involve environmentally harmful materials, sustainable energy storage are based on sustainable materials that are benign to the environment, like our sodium ion chemistry. So those are Earth-abundant materials, unlike others that you would find in conventional storage. And the third differentiator is also that these are typically technologies that can store energy for extended periods, allowing for stable supply of energy, even when renewable generation is low. So for example, when the sun is not shining.
And I just recently—we all here in South Carolina—just recently saw kind of what happens with less sustainable storage. For example, when we suffered power outages as a result of Hurricane Helene, for example. If diesel is being used in generators to store energy, and then you have a natural disaster, to the likes of Hurricane Helene, you'll end up finding long lines at fueling stations, right? It's a not very sustainable solution at that point. So, you know, we love getting away from those kinds of conventional technologies and going more towards Earth-abundant and future-proof sustainable technology solutions.
Hallie Cole
As you said, especially now, because we have seen the effects of climate change, natural disasters, and just in general, we need to have much more sustainable methods so that way we can continue to grow, but in a very responsible way. That's great. I like to start off each interview by asking how they define sustainability.
Suzanne Dickerson
So I mentioned I've been thinking about this for 30 years. You know, I think it's the most critical part of a definition of sustainability is how holistic is it, right? So it should be holistic in a lifecycle perspective. It should include everything that is impacted by the products or services being provided. So in our case, that would be anything and everything from the choice of materials for the battery cells—Earth-abundant sodium, which is available everywhere—to our glocal, you know, locally produced approach. So our production network will be decentralized, we will produce close to the markets, and this way you're able to mitigate long and extensive and environmentally harmful supply chain impacts and so forth. And everything in between. So to me, the key to a good definition of sustainability is its holistic nature.
Hallie Cole
With that, I was wondering if you could touch on how you see the role of sustainable energy storage evolving over the next five to ten years. As you said, Phenogy is growing so rapidly, and I'm sure that you can only predict so much because things are changing every single second, it seems like. But just from your space at Phenogy, what you've seen and how you think it might continue to evolve?
Suzanne Dickerson
So, it looks to be an extensive and fast-growing market. I would say in the next five to ten years, we will see exponential growth if we just take the last couple of the years we're in and last year as an indicator. So in 2024, battery energy storage increased in the U.S. by 60%. In 2025, we're expecting a doubling of that number on the U.S. energy grid. And the reality is that with population growth, increasing demand, development of hyperscale data centers, the demand for electricity is rising much faster than the built out of energy transmission. So we simply need more energy on the grid.
And so the storage of energy is critical. And we see the utilities really embracing storage as one mechanism to support the demand. The numbers vary on the forecast for the energy market, but it is still a very small percentage of the total overall grid. I would say, you know, in five years, 300, 400 percent growth would be probably conservative. In ten years, I would expect it to just be exponential.
Hallie Cole
With the growth and with everything that you've seen at Phenogy so far, what do you see to be some of the biggest challenges that the startup might face as you guys are looking towards the future?
Suzanne Dickerson
So, you know, we were just talking about the market. Well, the market varies. And so energy storage is not a one-size-fits-all kind of solution. If you're running an airport, you need a different amount of storage than if you're running a community center or a library. So one of the challenges is with a company our size, we have to distinguish which products we're really going to put all of our resources into. What we've done right now is we have kind of a very small size storage system—a 150 kilowatt size cabinet—that can be stacked where there's a smaller need for storage. And then we also are in the process of developing a new inverter technology that would be able to stack our very large system, which is a one or two megawatt size container to address larger utility scale needs. I think that approach will work well for us, but it is a challenge in trying to determine within that 300% growth of the energy storage market, what are the best products we should be placing our resources into.
Another challenge, though, is the different technical certifications, and those vary between geographic markets. So, for example, while we have already achieved all the necessary technical safety certifications to sell our systems in Europe, we still have to go through a somewhat different certification process for U.S. certification to be able to sell product here. Going through those extensive, rigorous technical certifications are time and resource consuming for a small company like ours. So for sure, those are challenges.
Hallie Cole
Going off of that, the challenges that you mentioned, how are you guys assessing these risks and balancing your growth as a company and also, you know, in line with the growth of the market with your goal for sustainable scaling and sustainable development?
Suzanne Dickerson
Right now, we're navigating these different resource challenges I just mentioned by reallocating and expanding our technical team resources. So for example, we're hiring at a rapid pace so that we can still achieve those go-to-market timeline targets we've established, while also continuing to evolve even more productive, efficient, and market-focused product technologies. So the technical team is needing to to grow very fast so that some parts of the team can be focused on those technical certifications. Some parts of the team are focused on further evolving the technologies. So that's probably our primary way to address those challenges right now.
Hallie Cole
Phenogy does a great job of, as you said, it's at their core—their entire mission is sustainable development. And how do you imagine that other organizations can maybe follow suit in holistically integrating sustainability?
Suzanne Dickerson
What I see is that oftentimes organizations get so focused on only one or the other goal in their sustainability mindset, either planet or prosperity. You have to have all three, right? You have to have people, planet, and prosperity. And I love that at Phenogy, our vision is based on those three guiding principles. So it's, I think, a pitfall that a lot of organizations fall into. Our focus is on keeping all three of those in balance.
Hallie Cole
When I was doing research into Phenogy, you guys have your actionable principles for guiding your mission. One of them is “Sustainability is always circular.” And I was wondering if you could just elaborate a little bit on what that means for you guys.
Suzanne Dickerson
Yeah, so, you know, the using materials that are available in every geographic region, like sodium, right, gives you the very decentralized supply chain that is then resilient and robust and local. So that makes, you know, for great energy security here in the U.S., for example. The decentralized production is certainly one way that we feel like we're keeping the sustainability picture circular. So the supply chain.
The people, right? So opening up Phenogy, Inc. and establishing Phenogy, Inc. in the North American market is another one of those circularity efforts on our part to, you know, we could of course just export from Europe, but we don't want to do that. We want to bring the circular sustainable approach to the North American market. So it really involves everything. So that means, you know, having local people, doing local production, local design.
You know, I mentioned the three distinct projects we're doing at the university right now. Those are all of critical importance to the company. We could be doing them at any university. We're doing them here locally. We've found really amazing expertise at the University of South Carolina. And to me, the breakthrough technology development being done locally is another kind of key element to the circularity goal that we have for the company. And I really love that, and I think it will distinguish us from competitors in the future.
Hallie Cole
You mentioned that Phenogy is really focusing on collaboration and partnership. And I was hoping that you could give an example of how a collaborative mindset has shifted the outcome of a project or how specifically collaboration has helped you guys in progressing?
Suzanne Dickerson
Yeah, so there are a number of examples. I'll talk about a couple of them. In addition to, you know, the work I just mentioned at the university, which will be very, very important for us in this market, Phenogy started early on with a partnership with the Fraunhofer Society. South Carolina is the only state in the country to have an alliance with Fraunhofer. It is one of the world's most regarded research organizations. And I think becoming part of the Battery Alliance in the early stages of the company and working with Fraunhofer to develop this exceptionally sustainable battery cell technology was one way that kind of cemented the collaboration culture of the company.
But the other one is—we also have on the production side, we have an exclusive relationship with a company called Exentis 3D. This is additive manufacturing within the production network. Another one of those ways we're partnering. So, you know, I really do think as a startup, we are very collaborative. Sometimes you see startup companies wanting to kind of hold everything, you know, inside a wall because, you know, your intellectual property is so precious and so forth. And of course we do that and protect our intellectual property, but we're also equally excited about partnership opportunities that can really kind of boost us to the next level quickly. And I think that collaborative culture has been instrumental in getting us to where we are as fast as we are today. So I would expect to see more of that from us going forward.
Hallie Cole
Now, shifting gears a bit, I'm a bit curious as to what role you see regulation and policy playing in shaping sustainable business practices moving forward for you guys and if there are any trends or policies that you see to be especially influential for Phenogy?
Suzanne Dickerson
You know, it's an interesting question. I think regulation and policy play a role in market development, for sure. But when I look at our market, there are so many other factors that are more influential than regulation and policy. Take the U.S. market, for example. We see the necessity of more energy generation driven by factors such as increasing use of AI that's driving more energy-intensive data centers that are popping up everywhere. We see population growth driving electricity demand, right? So neither of those increases on the grid are driven by regulatory or policy factors, and they vary.
So in Europe, the demand is, and the motivation kind of for energy storage is driven by different factors that are also not policy or regulatory related. In Europe, the driving demand is for efficient and sustainable energy consumption because of high energy prices. The third critical factor that will influence our market is the limited finite earth supply of critical materials for battery production. Also not regulated. So that it's just there's only so much, for example, if you were going to take lithium as a competitive material to our sodium, you know, there's only so much of it on Earth that we can go get, you know, from a mining process.
So, you know, it does play a role. I know we were kind of paying attention as we're considering production in the U.S. We've been paying attention to what will happen to some of the policy tools like 45X [Section 45X Advanced Manufacturing Production Credit] that is still in place until 2027 that works with our horizon. We are planning to bring production to the U.S. within that window. So that works well for us. There will be some incentives there, but I feel like all of these other factors are more influential for our market in particular. This won't be the same for others, but for our market, you know, the others have far more impact on what we're doing than regulatory and policies.
Hallie Cole
My last question—final note of the day—is if there was any final insight or advice that you would like to share with students or any young professionals out there that are hoping to make a difference in the sustainability space?
Suzanne Dickerson
Oh, I love that question. Yes, there is something I would want to say about that. I started out that way myself, right, 30 years ago. So first of all, and generally, I would say, please stay interested in this space. We need each and every student, young professional, there's much work to be done. So I would encourage you to continue to want to contribute to this industry, this sector, this topic. And then practically, one of the things that just absolutely worked for me, and I have seen work for others, is once you've decided that sustainability, resiliency is where you want to devote your talent, I would say, do your research, find organizations and individuals who you admire.
So I have on numerous occasions through my career had a student or a young professional connect with me, LinkedIn or other, and asked me if I could spend 15 minutes of my time to discuss their career plans and aspirations. I'm going to say 99% of people will say yes to a request like that. We can all find 15 minutes. And then be well prepared with your questions and repeat this process until you get what you want. So that would be my advice.
Thanks for joining in on this episode, and thank you to Suzanne Dickerson for her insights regarding responsible energy storage, holistic approaches to sustainability, and the feasibility of scaling sustainable technology. It's clear that companies like Phenogy are helping to pioneer the global transition to building a cleaner, more resilient energy future. Join us in the next episode as we discuss the role global partnerships hold within the sustainability realm with Dickson Monk from the Columbia World Affairs Council. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next time.